Reason I am asking this, because I have seen it in the past.

When we update from one version to another, there is always something fails to work. Majority of the time it will be related to DQL. So, I am still being cautious updating for my clients already using DataEase 8 in production.

So, question is one of my client using 8.2.0.1619 in production. I see that you have released few versions after this with some nice features. If I update this client, will they be ok? How can I find out what has changed between version 1619 and the latest?

Regards, Arul

Hi Arul.

I must take issue with your ALWAYS something that fails ;-) We release and have released on average 2 new versions of DE8 every week and we have only registered 2 occasions where the update had detrimental effect on existing applications. We are now on Release 1679 which means that 0.12% of our releases has caused detrimental effects to already developed applications.

There has been three teams involved in developing DFW. The original team that developed it (DataEase Inc. US), the team that took it over and maintained it for the next 15 years (Sapphire) and ourselves. 

I won't spend much time on the history but we either learnt from their mistake or we didn't. I will however give you that your observation of how things worked or didn't work corresponds very well with our observations of the same.

"The people that study history is bound to repeat it!"

For a very long time "nothing" changed in DataEase. Not the product, not the attitude, not the organisation, not how things were done. When nothing changes for a long time, however hard the surroundings try to influence change, people start believing that it can't change and that it will stay the same forever.

This was the challenge we took on but we didn't do it to "maintain" Status Quo.

It was a big job to get this ship moving again after such a long time in the "doldrums" and one of the big challenge after getting the product development back on track is to change the perception out there of both the organisation and the product.

Main Challenges:

1. Older versions is better than newer versions because they have less bugs.
2. There is no point reading the website, because they are never updated.
3. The only way to get heard is to make noise and treats.

The customer is always right so if this is how our customers view us then it is the "truth" and we just have to work even harder to change this perception.

However we work every day to improve DataEase and even though it might be small steps every day I believe that if one look back a couple of years one see a big change in the products.

You ask where you can find out what has changed... this brings me to 2. All the changes get listed in the Blog which has a prominent place on our website and is also the main feature in the "mini" version of the Website found in the catalogue in DE8 Developer (yes, we know that a lot of you hide it because it didn't contain anything useful in 7.x but we can't force you to unhide it).

All the new functions and functionality is also constantly added to the help file and we write articles about major changes in functionality, policy and ideology.

However you are right that it is not good enough. DE8 include so much new functionality and new stuff is added all the time and the documentation is not keeping up which is something we are working on and will improve.

Finally I want to address what you said after fails to work..."Majority of the time it will be related to DQL.".

The biggest problem we have had is that developers immediately blame DataEase when something don't work, rather than look to see if they did anything wrong themselves. With our history, I don't blame them but we have found that in most cases when people report bugs in DE8, the problem is related to coding mistakes on their part rather than actual bugs in DE8 and when you say that "majority of the time it will be related to DQL" you kind of prove that point as we have done no changes in DQL at all up till 8.2 and we have no reported incidents that has been found to be an actual bug related to DQL (excluding ExecDQL which is a new functionality) in DE8.0 and 8.1.

Sorry for the long winded answer but it was too good an opportunity to address these issues to miss out, but in the heat of the battle I found that I didn't actually answer all of your questions.

1. You are following a good practice. Don't upgrade a production environment just for the sake of it. Test everything in development before you update and only update when there is some real benefit.
2. DE8 is all about new functionality so there is no real point in updating if you haven't used that functionality in your development.
3."If I update this Client, will they be OK?" That is a question to which we can give no guarantee. There is no reason why they shouldn't be, but from there to saying 100% that they will be is impossible. However, we use the latest version (before they are released) on our own systems and very rarely do we see any detrimental effect.

Just to illustrate the differences between the current release version you are using and the latest release version... Today.

r1681

Updated Blat, CKEDit and addes SendEmail.exe

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r1680

Change request 1476(ExitDataEase with silent/confirmed mode) is improved for the case when exit has been stopped

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r1679

Change request 1476(ExitDataEase with silent/confirmed mode) is implemented

---------------------

r1678

Change request 1476(ExitDataEase with silent/confirmed mode) is partly implemented, debug and release behavior is synchronized

---------------------

r1677

Fix for bug 1475 ( Web fields conflict with TAB items) is improved, the problem with drawing of hidden field just after start is fixed for html edit fields

---------------------

r1676

Fix for bug 1475 ( Web fields conflict with TAB items) is improved, the problem with drawing of hidden field just after start is fixed for aweb fields

---------------------

r1675

Fix for bug 1475 ( Web fields conflict with TAB items) is improved, the problem with drawing of hidden field just after start is fixed for web fields

---------------------

r1674

Bug 1416 (HTMLFields do not scroll correctly) is fixed for HTML edit fields

---------------------

r1673

Bug 1416 (HTMLFields do not scroll correctly) is fixed for advanced Web fields

---------------------

r1672

Bug 1416 (HTMLFields do not scroll correctly) is fixed for Web fields

---------------------

r1671

Change request 1474 (Delete tmp files) is implemented

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r1670

Bug 1475 ( Web fields conflict with TAB items) is fixed

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r1669

Bug 1473 (SetState (Hide/Show) does not work for web fields) is fixed

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r1668

Cosmetic changes to remove unnecessary warning

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r1667

The fix of dug 1472 (Do not change name when copy-paste to other doc) is improved, the conflict of field and column names is solved

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r1666

Bug 1472 (Do not change name when copy-paste to other doc) is fixed

---------------------

r1665

Change request 1453 (GetCurrentRecordNumber and GetCurrentRowNumber) - GetCurrent function is improved, key "Dosdocname" is renamed to "Docfilename"

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r1664

Change request 1453 (GetCurrentRecordNumber and GetCurrentRowNumber) - GetCurrent function is improved, key "Dosdocname" is added

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r1663

Change request 1453 (GetCurrentRecordNumber and GetCurrentRowNumber) - GetCurrent function is improved, key "Docname" is added

---------------------

r1662

Change request 1453 (GetCurrentRecordNumber and GetCurrentRowNumber) - GetCurrent function is improved, key "Windowname" is added

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r1661

Change request 1453 (GetCurrentRecordNumber and GetCurrentRowNumber) - GetCurrent function is improved, key "Appname" is added

---------------------

r1660

Update of System files (Required) and icon to 8.2

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r1659

Change request 1400 (new prism function list) - SetGlobal and GetGlobal list is increased to 2000

---------------------

r1658

Change request 1453 (GetCurrentRecordNumber and GetCurrentRowNumber) - GetCurrent function is improved, the problem with wrong width and height definition is fixed

---------------------

r1657

Change request 1453 (GetCurrentRecordNumber and GetCurrentRowNumber) - GetCurrent function is improved, key "windowstate" is added

---------------------

r1656

CR 1469 (Change Request - MoveObject function) is improved, problem with scrollbar move is fixed

---------------------

r1655

CR 1462 (Functions to convert /stuff to ASCII values should be added) is improved, conversion is added to ExecDQL body

---------------------

r1654

Change request 1400 (new prism function list) is improved, problem with subform's scrollbars after SetState call is fixed

---------------------

r1653

CR 1464 (Allow Users logged in with Startup-Document to go to Design Time.) is improved, the problem with wrong startup windows handler is fixed

---------------------

r1652

CR 1464 (Allow Users logged in with Startup-Document to go to Design Time.) is improved, the problem with wrong tool bar is fixed

---------------------

r1651

CR 1470 (optional arguments) is improved, problem with GetCurrent is fixed

---------------------

r1650

Bug 1471 (Day(), Month() and year() functions do not work properly) is fixed

---------------------

r1649

CR 1470 (optional arguments) is improved,Dataexport and Dataimport are adopted to variable arguments quantity

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r1648

CR 1470 (optional arguments) is improved, problem with parsing of optional arguments is fixed

---------------------

r1647

CR 1470 (optional arguments) is improved, min quantity of arguments is reduced to 0

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r1646

CR 1470 (optional arguments) is improved,LabelExecDQL is adopted to variable arguments quantity

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r1645

Change request 1453 (GetCurrentRecordNumber and GetCurrentRowNumber) - GetCurrent function is changed to variable arguments quantity, object name is added for "width" and "height" ????

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r1644

One more change in build procedure to avoid problems with curlib.

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r1643

Build procedure is changed to avoid problems with curlib. NB! Debug version of rlookup is using _release_ version of curlib.

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r1642

CR 1470 (optional arguments) is improved,FileExecDQL is adopted to variable arguments quantity

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r1641

CR 1462 (Functions to convert /stuff to ASCII values should be added) is changed, key /_ is removed due to conflicts with URL for remote access

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r1640

Technical commit, debug "ghost" is removed

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r1639

CR 1470 (optional arguments) is improved,MemoExecDQL is adopted to variable arguments quantity

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r1638

Update installation and DERES to new 8.2 look

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r1637

CR 1470 (optional arguments) is partly implemented, min quantity of arguments is reduced to 1, ExecDQL is adopted to variable arguments quantity

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r1636

Added support files for remote lookup and an implementation adding lookup for fieldname, @filter, @error and @raw.

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r1635

Further changes to DERESDLG.DLL and installation to brand it 8.2

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r1634

Dataease 8.2 look added. Fixing of Dialogs so they become moveable. Fixed Welcome dialogue. Fixed System forms so they follow new guidelines.

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r1633

CR 1469 (Change Request - MoveObject function) is improved, region base is changed from form to nearest compound object (tab, record etc.)

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r1632

Update of CKEDIT to latest versions Version 4.4.4 • 20 Aug 2014

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r1631

CR 1469 (Change Request - MoveObject function) is improved, S key is added to resize objects

---------------------

r1630

CR 1469 (Change Request - MoveObject function) is improved, side effect of changes in 1627 build is fixed

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r1629

CR 1469 (Change Request - MoveObject function) is improved, the bug with moving of tab item is fixed

---------------------

r1628

CR 1469 (Change Request - MoveObject function) automated record resize to form size is switched off

---------------------

r1627

CR 1469 (Change Request - MoveObject function) is finally implemented, one more issue with position is fixed

---------------------

r1626

CR 1469 (Change Request - MoveObject function) is finally implemented, starnge issue with position is fixed

---------------------

r1625

CR 1469 (Change Request - MoveObject function) is implemented for complicated objects, calculation bug is fixed. NB! Known issues are present

---------------------

r1624

CR 1469 (Change Request - MoveObject function) is partly implemented, use-case for C,T/B, L/R and absolute coordinate is added. NB! Known issues are present

---------------------

r1623

CR 1469 (Change Request - MoveObject function) is partly implemented, use-case for +offset/-offset is added. NB! Known issues are present

---------------------

r1622

Change name of group installation from 8.0 to 8.2

---------------------

r1621

CR 1469 (Change Request - MoveObject function) is partly implemented, function skeleton is added

---------------------

r1620

CR 1462 (Functions to convert /stuff to ASCII values should be added) is improved, functionality is added into SetLabelText

---------------------

r1619

Change request 1453 (GetCurrentRecordNumber and GetCurrentRowNumber) - GetCurrent function is changed, keys "width" and "height" are added

---------------------

This is good. Thank you for the long answer. Long answer always helps rather than no answer.

Actually, when I said I had issues always when I update. It is before your time with DataEase. 

But, even recently I had an issue with DE8. As you know time/resources are very limited nowadays to track issues like 10 years ago. I can't remember which update. But, it is to do with day(datefield) = 0 issue. I am used to using this formula rather than datefield=blank. Because this is a workaround for DataEase not finding the correct blanks. Again, this issue was in the past.I kept using this in DE8 also until this workaround stopped working in DE8. I am not sure why or when. But, when I changed the formula to datafield=blank, everything was fine.

Yes, you made a good point. No need to update production version, if there are no bug fixing.

Regards, Arul

Hi again Arul.

I might have simplified it a little. There is a lot of bug fixing in between there too, but if there isn't a particular bug that bother you that we have fixed there is no reason to update before you have explored and used the new functionality. The way DataEase is going at the moment the developers need to keep on top of the new functionality before they employ it in production apps.

Yes. True. And that is what I was doing. Even if there is something bothering and client already in production. I always go with magic word "workaround". It will be really a matter of time/resources to retest their application under new update if they have 100s of procedures and tables.

Things like this;

r1635 - Further changes to DERESDLG.DLL and installation to brand it 8.2

r1650 - Bug 1471 (Day(), Month() and year() functions do not work properly) is fixed

By looking at this, hard to understand.

Regards, Arul